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Thread: Top 5 General Discussion.

  1. #1
    Master Modder Tazz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006

    Top 5 General Discussion.

    Final mods will be judged and ranked using 3 factors:
    1. Overall design (10 points)
    2. Creativity (10 points)
    3. Reflection of ION features (10 points)

    It seems that a lot of you are missing one key word in the above information..... FINAL

    The final mods will be judged using the above point system. That simply means that once the Top 5 Modders have completed their mods, they will be judged by the point system.

    This point system did not apply to the Top 30 selection, it did not apply to the Top 5 selection. It only applies to the Final Mods once they are completed. Although the design, creativity, and reflection of the ION features was kept in mind during the selection of the Top 30. You have to realize that we had to select a group of entries that we thought had winning potential.

    There was a ton of great, cool, unique ideas. There was also a ton of ideas that A) couldn't be completed in the time given, B) wouldn't have stayed in the budget C) obviously wouldn't have suited the ION features. No matter the size of the contest, when it comes to the Judging stage, there are always complaints.

    If you have a complaint, by all means politely state it. But please quit thread crapping on other peoples threads.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Salem, Oregon, United States

    Top 5 General Discussion.

    thanks Tazz!

  3. #3

    Top 5 General Discussion.

    See the banner up there at the top of this page? "Win the PC of your dreams". It does not say design I understand it the whole point was for guys to submit ideas for their perfect or "Dream" PC.
    That banner also says "Enter the NVIDIA Case Mod Contest", implying that some sort of design is necessary. So with that said, let me ask you something:

    Knowing that EVERYBODY here knows what a case mod is and the amount of design they really do take, and knowing that the judging criteria are "Creativity", "Reflection of ION features" (Implying specialized design), and "Overall Design", did you really think that people weren't expecting this to be some sort of design contest? Can you stand there, as a professional case modder, and tell me that a person would think that a Case Mod contest would involve no design at all?

    Passing this contest off as just an idea submittal for whomever had the better dream PC (designed or not) is both cynical and an insult to those that put in a good piece of time to design the PC they wanted to see being made.

    To be honest, the PC of my dreams is an $8,000 Alienware that I customized, so in retrospect I probably should have submitted a picture of it. But I digress.

    Building a custom PC case on this level is about a lot more then creativity. Each modder has a particular skill set, tools, material preferences and so on. It is also about time management. I made my choice based on those criteria.
    Okay, I can buy that. I understand. Skill sets, tools, material preferences, deadlines and the like. It's all good. But let me get this strait:

    You made your judgments off of all of that, taking less consideration for the original three advertised judging
    ? Seriously? Are you telling me and the other hard working designers that the advertised judging criteria weren’t followed as closely as we were lead to believe? Are you telling us that there were hidden criteria that we failed to take into consideration because we didn't know about them? Was there any fine print we didn't read that said this?

    If so, then you got the best of me.

    I also liked that it was by far the most complex build of the group.
    A picture that he linked off site, not of his design or creation, and therefore was accredited as the most complex of the bunch for something a VALVE DESIGNER made as opposed to our ideas that WE made? You are seriously judging an industry professional’s work, which happens to not be the original posters at all, as a valid and fair entry while giving the topic poster credit for it? Every single designer should be insulted right about now. I know I am.

    So knowing that, why make a design and present it when I could Google "avant-garde architecture" and steal credit for some of those amazing pieces of work? After all, this isn't a design contest so I should feel free to save myself the trouble and just steal some ideas (and probably get sued while I am at it).

    *edit* - Moved here

    That brings us to the last point. I am going to spend every moment of my free time over the next 6 weeks slaving over this project...I will very likely spend a LOT more then the build is actually worth in actual dollars...I do not think it is wrong that I looked for a project I would enjoy building...
    I feel the need to express the fact that you do not "slave" over a project you really want to do.

    Lastly...I mean no disrespect, but complaining about this sort of thing and blaming the few guys here at M-I busting their butts to pull off such a cool contest, or getting mad at Nvidia for dumping a ton of cash back into our community, or blaming the 5 guys that are essentially burning six weeks of free time (free in every sense of the word) for which project they chose to does show a lack of class or character Gentlemen. Each and every one of you should be congratulating your friends and fellow entrants who were picked this time--just as they will be doing when your turn comes.
    You want to know what I am mad at and complaining about? Not DSS for presenting the idea, not NVIDIA and Modders-Inc for this contest, but rather the judgment and lack of adherence to your own judging criteria. I want you to strait up tell me how this Mod was Creative, and had an amazing Overall Design for something he didn't even do.

  4. #4

    Top 5 General Discussion.

    This point system did not apply to the Top 30 selection, it did not apply to the Top 5 selection. It only applies to the Final Mods once they are completed. Although the design, creativity, and reflection of the ION features was kept in mind during the selection of the Top 30.
    While that exact point system may not have been used for the Top 30 and Top 5, I still found this.

    "Odds of winning will depend entirely on the merits of each entry as determined in accordance with Section 7 (Judging) of these Official Rules."

    As taken from Section 4 of the TOS. Section 7 is as follows:

    "7. JUDGING
    The winners in this Contest will be selected using the following process:
    (a) Initial Screening: Modders-Inc will conduct initial screening and select from all eligible entries a group of entries that have winning potential, using the following judging criteria: creativity, design concept, reflection of ION key features
    -small size, low-power, with ION graphics processing capabilities.

    (b) Selection of Finalists: CPU Magazine will select five (5) professional modders based on their expertise and reputation in the field to form the panel of judges (hereinafter collectively the “Judges” and individually a "Judge&#34, which panel will select FIVE (5) finalists from the group of entries selected by Modders-Inc based on the initial screening. The selection of the finalists will be based on the following judging criteria: creativity of concept, feasibility of producing concept, reflection of ION key features within concept.

    (c) Selection of First-Prize Winner: Of the five (5) finalists selected, CPU Magazine, NVIDIA, and Modders-inc will jointly select the first-prize winner based on the following judging criteria: creativity, overall design, reflection of ION key features-small size, low-power, with ION graphics processing capabilities. The remaining four (4) finalists will be the second-prize winners."

    Though the judiging process is awefully similar in parts A and C, I can't say for certain that they are identical. But if you are like me and read that TOS, you would have definitely made that connection with the criteria points and what they were looking for.

    That still doesn't change the fact however, that the judging, as outlined in Section 7 A and B, gave wrongful creativity points and design points to a picture/design not of the persons making. Read my post above for a reiteration of the wrongful judging.

    I stand by my long winded apology.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Salem, Oregon, United States

    Top 5 General Discussion.

    CMDRReservoir, Geno has to recreate the ENTIRE model and draw it with precision so he can use CNC tools to create some parts as well as hand fabricate others. That is creativity. You have NO idea what the end result will be so maybe you should refrain from further comment until then. The same goes for ALL the other pro-modders. This constant whining is the worst part of mod contests (and I have done my share of whining when I was a n00b I will admit - Dennis Leach can tell you that as he won the first contest I was in while I placed fourth). Some of you guys need to man up and stop being nancy boys.

  6. #6

    Top 5 General Discussion.

    DarthBeavis, this is not about what the person has to do to recreate it. This is about the judging process used that somehow got that idea there. The end result could be totally different, yes I am aware and I am sure that Geno will do a great job is making that case mod but that doesn't change anything about the judgement calls I have clearly stated my issues with.

  7. #7

    Top 5 General Discussion.

    Yarr :twisted: :twisted:

    You really just can't let open criticism be more than what it is. Yes, things are written in the forums and seem to be etched in stone, so it's hard to tell how much mind share remains and what will become of our legacy and so on, but here's some quick facts: 400+ ideas were submitted, nVidia spent a lot of money, and five modders will make some real designs and show us work logs that lots more people will be watching. That's the meat of this competition. There. It's done. The competition is largely a success already

    Any of the surrounding discussion is the buns, the mustard (grey poupon), pickles, lettuce, and grilled onions. Taken by themselves, the dressings are not nearly as appetizing and may offend the senses. Who wants to eat some mustard? But the reality remains that whatever surrounds the competition only adds to the flavor. I understand some people like a low-carb burger with no bun and any of that stuff, but these people will have kidney disorders in the future because eating the same thing all the time is never healthy. :lol:

    I haven't been killing forum policies and none of the other criticism looks malicious, so yes this stuff will probably stay on the burger unless we're going to start behaving like Korean Kim and deleting anything that doesn't spread rainbows of happiness at the worlds that be. Counter-whine is like throwing A1 at the burger after getting it all dressed up. Don't over spice it.

    I don't know anyone here personally. Nobody knows me personally. The only people really out on the line here are the modders and all of the wonderful people at nVidia to a much lesser extent. And you know what, the modders are definitely not the most concerned people that not everyone was 100% supportive with the way the top 30 or top 5 went down.

    It's easy to look at any event with lots of public discourse like, "wouldn't life be utopia if only everyone was on the same page?" and then feel threatened by some disarray. After all, it's hard to put something together with legitimacy and hold it up in the air and tell people that it's more than just a piece of fabric with some pretty designs on it. It's always a hard sell. The is the first Ion modding contest. But you know what, I'm not going to change the competition. Nobody else with any criticism is going to change the competition. There's no reason to try to drive the criticism out with yet more sauce.

    Forums are generally a little bit over-emotional, like email and all forms of text communication. You really just have to recognize that what's written, regardless of being carved into the forum's rolling autobiography, is not going to kill it and that no amount of posting can tip the general swing of things back towards a 100% tidy forum. It's never going to happen and is not a reasonable or healthy goal.

    All that said, I do hope I've contributed constructive
    criticism. It's not that I see cracks in the wall and want to pry them open. If anyone's afraid of that, then what are we doing here in the first place? I'm not going to bring society down, so there's no reason to start running around with buckets trying to bail water back over the dike.

    Did I have some good spice to add? Definitely. Primarily I'm arguing
    that a lot of the designs are a little too one-minded. If I go spend 50k and untold hours on making a car look cool, it's going to look pretty damned cool and definitely will be unique. Will I just throw random plastic at it? No. We have a tendency to go towards shapes, colors, and patterns that are a little more meaningful to us. We'll pick either something we recognize to add those additional associations that contribute to the "feel good" of the design. We might come up with our own brands and designs that we feel are projections of ourselves. Maybe we'll even be successful at it when other people look at them and say, "Wow, you've gotten a hold of a concept that really speaks about your character or reminds me of who I know you to be."

    All of the designs here have that angle. After the modders finish them, they will have even more of that factor. The personal touch that the modders apply via the methods of construction, material selection, and design compromises they make will inevitably add an additional layer of character that speaks about the skills of the modders.

    Now, this is me from my personal experience in graphic design, but any logo that is only unique is selling itself short. Take a look at All of the best logos, the ones that really burn into your eyes, will have one or several duel meanings. The logos themselves are self-reinforcing concepts. The graphic is what the text describes etc. A unique logo that looks cool is half the battle. As a logo designer, you have to build that secondary logical association into it in order to get it to be memorable. When someone looks at it, they'll get that secondary retention, and that's what makes an effective logo for a brand.

    Back to what I was saying earlier, there have always been two functions of case mods. One is to look cool, and the other is to be more functional so that the hardware can be used for things that it wouldn't be able to do otherwise. Packing cases into tight, awkward places is itself a little bit of a case mod. Take a look at blades and 1U servers and you'll see some clever challenges that had to be overcome. Laptops as well.

    Here's the kicker. What you gain with a functional case mod is that added dimension of value. Not only does the case look cool, but it functions in some way to add value to the coolness. Whenever you combine coolness and functionality, you get a case that has the design legitimacy that makes it a more robust statement of itself and the builder. By giving up that added functional angle, a case modder has completely ignored one entire dimension of value to the case mod.

    Think of it this way, I take home a design that's really unique and looks cool. Anyone who comes over to my place says, "Wow that's neat. You're obsessed." I take home a design that's really unique and looks cool and has functional value. Anyone who comes over says, "Wow, that's neat. Wow this is really useful." It's the difference between a cave spear that has a bunch of teeth and skulls attached to it and can't fly worth crap and a cave spear that's serrated and gets the job done better. Our aesthetic senses and practical senses are not accidental. When your practical sense can be aligned with your aesthetic sense, that's when you don't have to make compromises.

    It's challenging to do. As a logo designer, lots of cool effects and random brainstorms go the way of the trash can because there's just not a way to adapt them to have that extra dimension of value.

    I think case modding has stayed largely a little bit immature since I stopped keeping up. When I came up with my design, I definitely wanted to put that extra edge in there just to show people that it can be done. I'm very happy to have come up with the design and also very happy to have had it so well received, whether it made it into the top 5 or not. I think though it wasn't selected, the modders are going to have some productive brainstorming for having reflected on the design. Yes I'm being self-serving by complaining that the mods selected don't really have that edge. But I'm also leaving anyone with the patience to have read all this 8O with hopefully a little bit better angle on what case modding can be.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Salem, Oregon, United States

    Top 5 General Discussion.

    DarthBeavis, this is not about what the person has to do to recreate it. This is about the judging process used that somehow got that idea there. The end result could be totally different, yes I am aware and I am sure that Geno will do a great job is making that case mod but that doesn't change anything about the judgement calls I have clearly stated my issues with.
    If Geno and the other pros in the contest think they can use the concept to make a mod that will fulfill the requirements I say it is their choice. As far as the factors being judged to get the mods to the top N where the pros select them: If the criteria was not clearly stated I agree it should have been and that is a proper criticism. That is not the entire argument being put forth by most people who have issues with this contest thus far.

  9. #9

    Top 5 General Discussion.

    yikes these are long winded arguments 8O

  10. #10

    Top 5 General Discussion.

    Sorry man, but I got lost in the whole burger talk....

    But I do not understand why people take this as whining rather than constructive criticism as well. Why is it that only those who agree with the contest results are the ones giving constructive criticism while the ones who disagree are the whiners? We are not whining, we're not saying the contest sucked, cause it didn't, it was tons of fun. But that being said try to take some consideration in what the "whiners" are saying and really think about it. I think it is also important to listen to what the whiners have to say, because they might be giving reasonable and useful info that can be used for the next contest. None of us are trying to bash on anybody, but rather pointing out the flaws and weak points of the contest. In this case I have to agree with CMDReservoir... the judging aspect was very free flow. Some of the choices made no sense and does not match the criteria. I believe that those who read the rules thoroughly, adhered by them, and executed the contest's purpose brilliantly did not get their fair share. And some people are saying "but dude! there were 400 submissions!!" well.... the rules don't say that if there are more than a certain amount of submissions, the judging was allowed to be flawed. If they were going to make a contest, they should have been ready for this kind of thing. It is the hosts' responsability to be able to adhere by the rules and criterias of the contest no matter what the cost. If not... why make rules and criterias in the first place?

    And it was not the fact that the rules weren't made clear that threw me off... it was the lack of adherence towards the rules and criteria. The criteria specifically states what is needed for this contest, and those who 100% followed this criteria are not getting their fair share. Some of the choices the modders made for the top 5 just don't follow the criteria closely enough.

    Like I said, don't take this as "whining", how about you stop for a second and think about what is being said? I'm really excited to see the end results, but I'm skeptical on some of the decisions made in this contest, because it really does suck for those other participants who weren't fairly judged.

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